Tournament Rules.

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17th November 2008, 06:48am
#1
by ih8sens
Sudbury, Ontario Canada
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 2763

I've heard different answers to this among masters... I wish someone could actually SHOW me the rule.

 

This applies to Tournament OTB chess ... Are you allowed to write your move down first and then make the move, or must you first move and then write it down?

17th November 2008, 06:58am
#2
by Zhane
Mexico City Mexico
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 6971

I've played some matches where you must first move and then write down what you played. It is the best way of analysing a match.

17th November 2008, 07:02am
#3
by gobo
Netherlands
Member Since: Aug 2007
Member Points: 103

http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=124&view=article

Rule 8.1

You must first move and then write it down. You may even reply a move first and then write both down.

17th November 2008, 07:03am
#4
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3989

Are you more concerned about fide or uscf rules ? They sometimes differ. I believe fide now requires you to play the move first and only then write it down. You should be able to find fide rules online, as well as uscf rules.

17th November 2008, 07:16am
#5
by ih8sens
Sudbury, Ontario Canada
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 2763

I'm actually concerned about FIDE and the Canadian rules (CFC) ...

 

But if FIDE requires you to move first, and then write it (what a STUPID rule!!!) ... I assume the CFC requires the same thing.  Although to be honest I'm just gonna write it first anyways until a TD tells me not to :) ... they aren't gonna forfeit you for something like that (right away :P).

17th November 2008, 07:27am
#6
by Mysterix
Enghien Les Bains France
Member Since: Jun 2008
Member Points: 145

Why wouldn't you follow the rule ???

It's not stupid, it prevents cheating.

17th November 2008, 07:28am
#7
by ThreeQueens
Durham, North Carolina United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 1782

I always moved first and then wrote.  Is there a rule about writing or moving first?  I thought the rule was "you touch it, you move it" (kind of like Pottery Barn/Foreign Policy for chessplayers).  I never heard about "you write it, you move it" or "you write it first, you lose".  I don't think making notes on a pad would go over too well in OTB, but writing down a move on your scoresheet and looking it over on the board once more before you move would not be in violation of any rule I know of.

But maybe I'd be setting myself up for some kind of forfeit.

17th November 2008, 07:37am
#8
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3989
17th November 2008, 07:39am
#9
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3989

I just read the rules of FIDE concerning recording of moves and it doesnt seem to say  you must first make your move and only then record it. It does say you may not make a move without recording your previous move however. Its not really very clear, the way its written imo. In any event , I have always written my move down first and then done a "blunder check" before playing the move on the board and will continue doing so until I am told by an arbiter that its not allowed. I do not see how this is "cheating" in any way.

17th November 2008, 07:48am
#10
by ih8sens
Sudbury, Ontario Canada
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 2763
Mysterix wrote:

Why wouldn't you follow the rule ???

It's not stupid, it prevents cheating.


Preventing people from bringing pocket fritz to a tournament "strictly for annotation purposes" and then carrying it with them to the bathroom "so it doesn't get lost" is how you prevent cheating.  Stopping someone from writing their move down (on their own time!) and 3 seconds before playing it doesn't stop cheating :).

17th November 2008, 12:54pm
#11
by rockviper
Ajax, ON Canada
Member Since: Aug 2008
Member Points: 83

I think the "move before writing" rule came about as a way to address/facilitate the use of the MonRoi recorder for tnmts which post live games through its usage.

 

As mentioned earlier by gobo, the actual rule can be found in Article 8.1 in the FIDE Handbook
http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=124&view=article

17th November 2008, 01:28pm
#12
by KillaBeez
Kansas United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 4048

I play USCF and write down my move before I play it all the time.  I can't imagine it being illegal.  I know that if you have a Monroi that you cannot write it down before you move, because then you can actually see the resulting position.

17th November 2008, 01:48pm
#13
by dsachs
ottawa Canada
Member Since: May 2008
Member Points: 262

CFC requires you to make the move and then record it.

8.1 in the handbook... chess.ca

17th November 2008, 02:48pm
#14
by RetGuvvie98
Manassas, VA United States
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3582
KillaBeez wrote:

I play USCF and write down my move before I play it all the time.  I can't imagine it being illegal.  I know that if you have a Monroi that you cannot write it down before you move, because then you can actually see the resulting position.


Senior USCF TD Here.

  All players in official USCF tournaments  (I cannot speak for Canadien rules, I don't direct events in Canada) are now required to make the move, and then write it down - consistent with FIDE Rules (references above).  However, in many USCF tournaments, the TD will still "warn" players for infractions instead of forfeiting them for writing it first and later moving.  The rules change was to stop folks from writing down the move, studying the board, erasing that move and writing another move and then studying the board... you get the idea... while very very limited, it was decided (not by me, don't shoot at me for this), that constituted "analysis" and was not allowed by the rules to analyze. 

 

(( personally, I think:    "If you cannot hold onto the first move you contemplate in your brain, feeble you." and Tough Turkey. ))  Officially, I went with what the organizer directed when directing tournaments last year.  that was:  warn them once.   Once was always enough.

18th November 2008, 01:12am
#15
by NM Reb
Lisbon Portugal
Member Since: Sep 2007
Member Points: 3989

Ok, that link made it more clear than the one I read. It also states that both players are required to note any draw offer(s) on their scoresheets. I have never done this and havent noticed others doing so. Do you , as a player, note draw offers on your score sheet ? I will try to start doing so.....IF I can remember to .

18th November 2008, 01:48am
#16
by quequeg
Halifax England
Member Since: Oct 2008
Member Points: 29

The rule was changed recently so that you cannot write a move first.  I play a lot of tournament chess and for me it is no problem if my opponent writes the move down first.  I do get a little annoyed if he then thinks for a while and crosses out the move then writes another - that I think is the practice that the rule change was intended to stop.  Also did you know that you must also use algebraic notation? descriptive or English notation are also forbidden.  i am quoting the FIDE rather than USCF rules.  And if you write the move down first and your opponent complains?  Probably a warning from the arbiter then a forfeit if the offence is repeated.

18th November 2008, 08:08am
#17
by KillaBeez
Kansas United States
Member Since: Jan 2008
Member Points: 4048

That's good to know.  I have a Monroi, so I don't have that problem.  I can't tell you how many times I wrote down a move and then realized that it would have been a game-losing blunder earlier in my career.  Silman even recommended in his books.  If people have a problem with me writing down a move before it is played, then they are just WAY too paranoid.  I am not saying it is you, but writing down the move just brings you back to the moment to where you can adjust your viewpoint.

18th November 2008, 08:25am
#18
by thegab03
on the road to nowhere! Ireland
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 16981

Yep, shear madness!

18th November 2008, 08:49am
#19
by Phil_from_Blayney
Blayney, NSW Australia
Member Since: Apr 2008
Member Points: 256

It may seem trivial, but a complaint from your opponent will see you sanctioned with anything from a warning to loss of the game. Best to learn to record your move after playing it, just to avoid any chance of having your concentration upset by a well timed protest.

18th November 2008, 09:24am
#20
by PawnFork
St. Louis United States
Member Since: Nov 2007
Member Points: 390

Making the move before you record it is a better usage of time.  Move -- hit clock -- record move.

 

Personally I don't care if you write war & peace as you are playing, but I'm just an amateur.  The Fritz insight is scary.

 

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